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Analytic or feel

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jonag View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 December 2005 at 2:36pm

I have read Dave Pelz bible books.  he is obviously a very scientific guy who likes to prove how nature works.

Heard some comment on left and right hand players.  There was something on left hand players using the right brain half which was less analytical and looked at the situation from a more complete perspective.

According to Dave Pelz I should get me 4 wedges, ingrain 8.30, 9 o'clock and 10.30 and calibrate my distances with those wedges.  It sounds analytical and wise to do.

But my experience is that within 30 to 40 yards it is enough to pick out a spot to land the ball, apreciate the roll and break and just hit the ball easy to that spot.  It works well for putting as well.

If I were to throw a ball with my hands, I would do the same and I believe that anybody has this ability suprisingly well within themselves.

I will wait using Pelz wedge system.

And the times I miss the short shots it is because I aim wrong or controls my backswing.  I am often suprised over the accuracy when I just aim at a spot and don't think at all.

I find it quite OK to measure the distance because I can calibrate my feel for the distance, but after that just feel the swing.

Anyone with experiences ?

Jon Arne
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LowPost42 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LowPost42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2007 at 3:16pm
It seems to me that a lot of feel players don't "get" Pelz.
 
What you describe is a standard 'feel' shot:  I don't have a yardage for this, so I want the ball to land there and it should release and bounce and take that break.  Perfect.
 
So you make a few practice swings feeling and visualising the ball flight, resultant bounce and roll.
 
Where the Pelz method comes in is practice with the wedges at the allotted 'times' to create known distances.  So rather than feeling how far you want to hit it, you know you've got 87 yards to the flag, you want to fly something 75 yards and account for a hop and a little run back to the flag.  You know that your 9:00 swing with your GW gives you 80 yards and your 7:30 with the GW gives you 68, while your 9:00 with your SW gives you 72.  So you grab your SW and decide to make a 9:00 and feel for going just a hair past 9:00 to squeeze out the extra 3 yards you want.
 
In other words, it's just another aid to club selection.  More work, yes, more practice required, but if you've got those yardages, then it should be much more confidence-inspiring knowing that you've got the perfect club, and you know the perfect swing to get your distance.
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jonag View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2007 at 3:36pm
took a long time to answer me ben :-))
 
maybe I should try to at least teach me a half swing with the wedges and get me som more yardages...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Archispecman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2007 at 3:57pm
The other part of this is that I play golf for fun!  I am not a professional golfer and don't make my living on the golf course.  If I was to do the Pelz method and I have tried some of it, it would suck all the fun out of the game for me.  I like to play well but I also enjoy having a feel for the game and not doing math homework on the course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gwlee7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2007 at 4:01pm
That would be a good place to start but, what if you need to hit it 57 yards but on a sky high trajectory to a front pin tucked behind a bunker or 57 yards to a back pin with a steep slope off the back?  To be a really great wedge player you're going to have to be able to hit the same distances with several different wedges and trajectories.  That comes more from practicing what these shots "feel" like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LowPost42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2007 at 10:30pm
Sorry Jon - I just came upon the thread today (moved over to a Vista machine and am trying to get comfortable with it).
 
The "half swing" (9:00) is a good place to start - two yardages with each wedge can't hurt.
 
Now, gwlee, you bring up some good points - but what Pelz gets for you is straight carry distances for pitches.  If you need to carry 57 yards and suck it back 15 feet or carry it 57 yards and have it sit dead, then yes - you'll need those shots in your arsenal (unpracticed fellows like myself don't have the spin control to decide if I want one hop and stop or one hop and suck back or check hard and dribble....)
 
But to use my above example hitting the 9:00 GW for the 80 yard carry but sucking it back to the protected pin would work, while hitting the 7:30 GW to carry 68 yards and running to the back pin works too for a 75 yard target. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JustinH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2007 at 12:21am
Originally posted by LowPost42 LowPost42 wrote:

Sorry Jon - I just came upon the thread today (moved over to a Vista machine and am trying to get comfortable with it).
 
The "half swing" (9:00) is a good place to start - two yardages with each wedge can't hurt.
 
Now, gwlee, you bring up some good points - but what Pelz gets for you is straight carry distances for pitches.  If you need to carry 57 yards and suck it back 15 feet or carry it 57 yards and have it sit dead, then yes - you'll need those shots in your arsenal (unpracticed fellows like myself don't have the spin control to decide if I want one hop and stop or one hop and suck back or check hard and dribble....)
 
But to use my above example hitting the 9:00 GW for the 80 yard carry but sucking it back to the protected pin would work, while hitting the 7:30 GW to carry 68 yards and running to the back pin works too for a 75 yard target. 
 
Man, if you can hit a ball 60 yards and suck it back 15feet then that is some SERIOUS hand speed.  I can spin the ball better than most people I know on short shots there is no way I'm sucking a ball back 15' with a LW from 60 yards.
 
EDIT: back to topic, I think a good short game is a combo of both.  You need to be able to look at a shot, analyze, then choose the highest percentage shot.  Why fly it 40y to the open front green when you can take an 8/PW and bump it up closer?  I don't know,  both sides have thier plus/minus side.  Like Chuck says though, golf isn't a game of full shots, to be a better player half shots are a must.


Edited by JustinH - 12 December 2007 at 12:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2007 at 4:59am
my experiences so far from for instance 80y with a half wedge is that I get more bite on a half wedge than a full SW.  The half wedge is lower, bounces some 5 y and then just sucks to the ground, dead.  A SW does not bounce, carries all the way and moves some yards in an arbitrary direction.  Two different shots, but the half wedge is much more controllable given the amount of green to work with, and given I can execute a half wedge.  10% wrong power and it is 10y too long...
 
A LW is easier to stop even more dead, but the distance is the problem.  A must from bad lies within 50y.
 
bump and runs...  I have a course that does not support it having soft, hairy FW and a fringe of too heavy grass...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LowPost42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2007 at 10:10am
Originally posted by JustinH JustinH wrote:

Originally posted by LowPost42 LowPost42 wrote:

Sorry Jon - I just came upon the thread today (moved over to a Vista machine and am trying to get comfortable with it).
 
The "half swing" (9:00) is a good place to start - two yardages with each wedge can't hurt.
 
Now, gwlee, you bring up some good points - but what Pelz gets for you is straight carry distances for pitches.  If you need to carry 57 yards and suck it back 15 feet or carry it 57 yards and have it sit dead, then yes - you'll need those shots in your arsenal (unpracticed fellows like myself don't have the spin control to decide if I want one hop and stop or one hop and suck back or check hard and dribble....)
 
But to use my above example hitting the 9:00 GW for the 80 yard carry but sucking it back to the protected pin would work, while hitting the 7:30 GW to carry 68 yards and running to the back pin works too for a 75 yard target. 
 
Man, if you can hit a ball 60 yards and suck it back 15feet then that is some SERIOUS hand speed.  I can spin the ball better than most people I know on short shots there is no way I'm sucking a ball back 15' with a LW from 60 yards.
 
EDIT: back to topic, I think a good short game is a combo of both.  You need to be able to look at a shot, analyze, then choose the highest percentage shot.  Why fly it 40y to the open front green when you can take an 8/PW and bump it up closer?  I don't know,  both sides have thier plus/minus side.  Like Chuck says though, golf isn't a game of full shots, to be a better player half shots are a must.
 
I was just tossing out numbers... don't get too excited!
 
And I'll fully agree that even with the Pelz system you still need feel.  Like it's been said - if a GW flies 80 and 68 yards and a SW only gets you 72 yards and you need 75, you still have to feel those extra 3 yards out of yoru SW (or feel the extra 7 out your your small GW).
 
I'm learning, sadly, that golf is more or less a feel sport.  But the question is on the feel side of the spectrum do you lean more to 'see it and feel it' or do you lean more to yardage based club selection.  You still have to feel the right swing, no matter which end of hte spectrum you're on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2007 at 6:38am
Reminds me of a Ben Hogan story.
 
Story goes that he and another competitor were playing a practice round at a tournament site, and Hogan hit his approach shot into the green on one hole quite close. The man he was playing with, asked Hogan what club he had used. Hogan somewhat miffed at the question, glared at the man and proceeded to hit a half a dozen different clubs from his bag all within a couple of feet of the first ball. Hogan then simply said for him to take his pick.
 
True or not, I don't really know, but it sure seems like something he would have done, but if true, talk about distance control via feel!
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