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Mixing Fundamentals within 1PS?

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Lefty View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 March 2006 at 12:23pm

Some posts made by Jim Hardy on his forum lately have started me thinking about whether there can't be a mixing of fundamentals within the 1PS community.

Specifically, Hardy sees the 1PS as swinging the arms while rotating the body. At first I was quite confused by the "activeness" of the arms in his swing but then I started to realize that I had been actively using my arms on the backswing (taking the hands over the back foot, sliding the arms up and back behind me) but disengaging them all together on the way down.

After closely observing my own swing, I see that the hands can leave the "inner circle" on the downswing and swing more in-to-out if left too passive. I'm wondering whether if you are going to rely on body rotation and passive arms, as CQ teaches, it's necessary to be (a) more upright and (b) bring the club back a little straighter and not so much to the inside? In other words, not mix fundamentals.

I'd be interested in any views on these observations.

Lefty

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RickyHarris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RickyHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2006 at 12:41pm

I swing very much like this! I turn like the one plane swing but swinging my arms alot too. In my takeaway I feel very much I use just my arms but i turn at the same time which makes my arms more closer to my body. Although my swing looks very much similar to the 2 plane swing with the left arm higher than the shoulder plane, To me it feels very one plane because I feel im turning alot more than what a 2 planer does.

It makes ur arms very active on the DS tho, VEry annoying sometimes!

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RickyHarris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RickyHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2006 at 12:54pm

Just read some things on the "secret downswing move" thread on jims forum. And this is exactly what i need to do. Ill do it over time because i have alot of competitions coming up. But he ses he doesent mind people throwing there arms, OK! NOT LIKE SOME THROWING ARMS RIGHT HAND SWATTING ACTION but only as long as there turnign there torso hard through the ball.

Now, BEcause I swing my arms while turning the body my swing is quite armsy. I not gona chnage it because it feels natural and doesent really course me problems BUT when it does i hit pulls and cuts. The reason? because I dont turn my torso hard enough in the DS so my arms get to fast for the body.

WAY HAY! thanks for comign upon that post WOOHOO! So I dotn need to work on stoping using my arms to much in the DS all i have to do is Turn my hips torso harder in the DS.

WICKED! I wotn try it in my comp tommrow tho because im playing well, ill start trying that on the range if my form starts to dip.

RickMAN!

 

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RickyHarris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RickyHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2006 at 12:57pm

PLUS! that makes my swing perfect! Now i know that, I know every single little thing what goes wrong with ym swing if im on bad form. And If i get that right that means there wont be 1 thing wrong with my swing. Thats the only thing worng with. Thats given me even more confidence to just go out there and swign natural for the rest of the summer. Im going out there and swigning natural now anyway, but now i can do it with CONFIDENCE!

HAHA, im gona kick ass tommoz!

rick

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Chuck Quinton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Quinton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2006 at 1:15pm

Lefty,

The simple truth of the matter is that passive arms is a bit of a misnomer. Everyone's arms do something, it just may not feel like much. Hardy's one plane swing focuses on the arms and they very actively work around and release aggressively, which is very difficult for the average golfer. If you go back and read his book right from the intro, he stressed how much more athletic the swing was. Of course, since the popularity of the swing has taken off, he's changed his tune, but in his book he made very strong statements about how much more athletically demanding the swing was. The average golfer, 20 hdcp or so, simply doesn't have the time, and some, the necessary coordination, to get all the parts working correctly. When I work with better golfers I focus on a lot more specifics as you can see from my recent discussion and video of my own swing in the Members Vault. Focusing on this with the average golfer just doesn't fly, they need a basic swinging motion first that is far simpler to learn and not as demanding, which is what I offer. When I work with my professionals, strong amateurs and my own swing, the story is a different one.

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timchong View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timchong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2006 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by Lefty Lefty wrote:

After closely observing my own swing, I see that the hands can leave the "inner circle" on the downswing and swing more in-to-out if left too passive. I'm wondering whether if you are going to rely on body rotation and passive arms, as CQ teaches, it's necessary to be (a) more upright and (b) bring the club back a little straighter and not so much to the inside? In other words, not mix fundamentals.

I'd be interested in any views on these observations.

Lefty

Lefty,

Consider me to be in the minority for the passive arms.  I don't like being too active in my arms because it either promotes holding onto the shot (late rollover of forearms) or prematurely rolling the right forearm over the left. 

Just recently, I realized that I have been deviating from the proper body rotation just before impact.  The backswing, I had no problems with because I was always making sure the hands go over the rear foot and turning my upper torso 90 degress from address. 

But what about the downswing?  Well, I haven't been clearing the left shoulder aggressively enough and at least 180 degrees from the backswing.  With my leading arm pinned to my side (I often have a headcover tucked under my left armpit), I can pull my arms back inside after impact with passive arms.   And the hands stay well inside or close to the inner circle. 

I guess the visualization I use for clearing the leading shoulder is to imagine a string attached to the top of my left shoulder, with the other end attached to a rock.  The rock being behind my rear foot, the object is to sling the rock around my body by clearing the left shoulder and let the string to at least wrap my body counter-clockwise.

If you've seen Chuck Quinton and Vijay Singh swing, you'll see that they fully rotate their body almost away from the target after hitting the ball.  And the passive arms is evident when you see Vijay Singh lazily swing his arms over his left shoulder then drops due to gravity.

Try turning more to the right (in your case, Lefty) by using your shoulders only.  You may find that it is even more important for you to remain centered with almost no lateral movement in able to catch the ball at the apex of the swing arc (inside-to-inside).  I know all this sounds too simple and I can't stress how critical it was for me to pull my left shoulder back and behind my head a-la lawnmower drill quick and fast. 

For the driver and woods, I clear my shoulders behind the ball.  Irons, a different story.   

Tim C.



Edited by timchong
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timchong View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timchong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2006 at 2:20pm

BTW Lefty,

I'd be cautious about taking Jim Hardy's advice seriously from the forum, only if it doesn't apply to you.  I.e. the secret downswing move involving throwing the arm to the left, I didn't bother trying it... but it may work for others.  He has so many different swingers visiting the forum, asking if a "square" grip is permissible than the strong grip with the one plane swing, or any other slight deviations from the one-plane swing fundamentals.  By the time you take in all those advice, you will probably be so far from the one-plane swing.

Me, I get all the help I need from Jim Hardy's book.  I may not even want to buy his 2nd book since I'm hitting the ball much better with the one-plane swing.



Edited by timchong
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RickyHarris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RickyHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2006 at 3:15pm
I already kind of throw the arms to the left thats the problem. Only slightly tho. So I was just wondering if that starts causing me problems in the future all ill have to do i turn more in the downswing!
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timchong View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timchong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2006 at 3:20pm

Originally posted by RickyHarris RickyHarris wrote:

I already kind of throw the arms to the left thats the problem. Only slightly tho. So I was just wondering if that starts causing me problems in the future all ill have to do i turn more in the downswing!

The reason I ignored the so called "Secret downswing move" was because I've tried it and failed.  I was casting, getting stuck behind, flipping my hand over, etc.  It's just too much activeness and adds yet another swing thought during the swing.

I prefer to throw my arms around to the left by using my body turn.

Tim C.

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mikec View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2006 at 3:30pm
Lefty:

One Planer has never claimed there are passive arms. And reading inbetween the lines of Chuck's post, he doesn't either.

They can become  passive, ONCE you know how to USE them right. They don't  NOTdo anything. You have to teach them first, then you can forget about them, ie, be passive.

But from your descriptions of your ball flight and ability, maybe you have already taught them and are now reaching for something that's not there. Just a thought.




Edited by mikec
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