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two plane help

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andrew View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 August 2006 at 4:08am
ive decided to once again ditch the 1ps and go with my natural 2ps. so i need to get my backswing steeper again, the problems i have with this however is i tend to get the club laid off when i swing 2p. I am wondering how i can get the club across the line at the top? it just seems an impossible task for me, if i could get the club across the line like retief goosen does i would never leave my 2ps Any ideas would be of great help
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RickyHarris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RickyHarris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2006 at 5:26am

Why do you want your swing to be across the line and then start snap hooking and blocking the ball!

Get your left wrist more cupped at the top if you want that laid off position gone!

But DONT get across the line!

2 years 9 months playing golf, 6 handicap golfer, 15 years old and learning about the golf swing everyday. :-)!
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colin.earl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colin.earl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2006 at 7:53am
Ricky

Don't forget Jim Hardy recommends having the club parallel to the target line, or across the line in a 2ps...That may be why Andrew wants to do this.
Also, it's not how much or little your wrist is cupped that determines whether the club is laidoff, it's how much you've rotated your forearms, all other things being equal, shoulder turn, etc.

Andrew
Get into your top of swing position, and just rotate your forearms clockwise then anti-clockwise and you'll see how the shaft moves from laid off to across the line...If you just cup and then flatten your wrist you'll see you're just opening and closing the face..All you need to do is practise getting the feel for the amount of forearm rotation you need to get the position you want.

It took me a while to understand this when I was learning the 1ps, as I was trying to get a more laid off position and was doing as Ricky suggests until I realised this isn't the case.
This is also how Tiger can keep the shaft parallel to it's angle at setup in his backswing as he really just times his forearm rotation to do this...Try a little experiment...Take 2 backswings to the 9 o'clock position...In the first try not to rotate your forearms at all and you'll probably see the shaft pointing inside the toe to ball area (Leadbetters golden triangle) and in the 2nd rotate your forearms alot and you'll see the shaft pointing outside the ball.

Hope this helps
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Chuck Quinton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Quinton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2006 at 11:16am
Andrew, a simple way to get the club to across the line and shallow it out is to take the club back on a path that is a little more inside. If you take the club back outside the hands and above the plane, it becomes difficult not to lay the club off at the top. If you want to get across the line for the sole purpose of shallowing out on the way down, take it back more shallow on the way back and that keeps you from having to have an inordinate amount of forearm rotation on the way back.
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andrew View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2006 at 12:00am
Thanks chuck and colin.earl yeah i am trying to work the 2ps in line with hardys method. you both make total sense with what your saying. i do notice i take the club outside the hands early on and slightly disconnect my left arm. so chuck with me trying to shallow out my takeaway i will hav to rotate my left arm correct? also do you think goosen achieves is crossed over position through left am rotation or more his right elbow position?
current handicap 2.4
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rprevost View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rprevost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2006 at 9:09am

Andrew--

When I get too steep with my TPS, I return to the idea that the club should be parallel to the target line with the toe pointing up at about waist-high on the backswing.  If I swing through that position on the way to getting the club over my right shoulder, the effect is, as Chuck suggested, to shallow out my swing and allow me to get it across the line.  This is a tip I saw on a Dana Radar video, but it is a TPS fundamental, I think.  This swing thought usually gets my TPS back on plane.  My backswing gets too steep typically when I start the club back outside the target line, which causes all kinds of problems, e.g. blocks, shanks, etc. 

RP

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Chuck Quinton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Quinton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2006 at 9:23am
andrew, the goose does both. He takes the club back way more to the inside than say, Tiger with his old classic two plane swing. So much to the point that it would give him more of a one plane backswing as the club tends to get pretty deep on him. I believe he does this because he is more of a feel player and grew up without a lot of lessons. Ernie Els has done the same thing, especially when he was younger, as it feels really naturally to kind of pull it back inside with the hands and loop it around across the line at the top. I've had very few students who didn't have a tendency to do this in either swing.
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