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theidiot View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 February 2008 at 6:35am
What do you do? Your routine??
I have a set if weights, I can't afford the gym :|
My bench press has broke and atm I can't buy a new one, I want one of those speed radar unity thingys anyway. I can do it on my bed kinda, bit wierd but feels pretty much the same.
I went on a bulk for about 4 months, I put on over 2 stone (28+lbs [English]). I put on muscle and loads of fat so I got annoyed. I went on holiday and felt like a chunky monkey, which wasn't the look I was going for. So now major bulking for me is out of the window. I've basically cut all the fat off, I still have a lil podgy belly cus that's the only place I seem to store the stuff! But to get that off I'd have to starve myself and get my bf% so low it's ridiculous.
So I'm eating cleaner this time, no more 1200kcal shakes. Lots of protein, carbs at the right time, good fats, hopefully only a little over maintenance.
 
But my routine sucks!
 
I have read and read and read, everyone talks about different things.
 
5x5
10x3 (yeah 10 sets of 3!!)
3x10
1x8
12reps, 10reps, 8reps....
 
Well, which bloody works???
 
Previously I would do 1 set only, anywhere from 5-10 reps, when I got to 10 I'd up the weight.
Then I switched to 2 sets, same idea tho. But after doing say 2 exercises, a total of 4 sets, I'd be knackered and my next exercises would suck. I did a period of 12 reps, increase the weight, 10 reps, increase the weight, 8 reps. But this to me felt stupid, if I can lift these 8 reps at the end after doing a previous 22 reps then surely I'm not stressing this muscle enough???
I read if you can do more than 10 reps then the weight is too low. But what is needed to stress the muscle to grow, heavier weights or more sets?!?! Some say if the weight is heavy enough you should only be able to do 1 set and it'll really hit 'em, others disagree....
 
Some people say you have to be in the gym for no longer than 47 minutes, others say 2 hours is good. What the!?!
 
Me, I don't like endurance. I'm lazy. I like to get my work done fast, lift heavy and go to sleep. Messing around with 12+ reps and 3+ sets ain't my thing. Bing bang and I'm gone!
 
I also heard heavier weights promote more fast twitch muscles, so that's gotta be good for golf and speed.
 
So now I've even cut my exercises down even more, I'm doing less exercises - just the compounds basically, maybe an isolation or two after I'm knackered from the compounds.
 
Deadlifts, Bent Over Rows, Shoulder Presses, Bench Press. I do Squats but I have no rack, it'd be dangerous to go too heavy and I mess my rotator cuff up trying to get the weight on the shoulders. I also do shrugs and barbell curls, sit ups, press ups and pull ups (alternating between a couple of 'em each workout.) I do 1 set of each atm, 5-10 reps (when I get to 10 I increase the weight.) Sometimes I feel like this isn't enough, I never feel too bad the day after a workout but I never did when I did more reps and more sets. One more set and I know I'd be knackered but it'd be very time consuming, because I lift quite big I leave 3-5 minutes between certain exercises, there's no point in my proceeding to do an exercise if I'm still knackered from the previous one! So I need your help, what has worked for you? Am I hitting all the muscles of leaving several out? I think I need a decent leg exercise, I love deadlifts but I need more workout for the legs! Maybe there's other variations of it that are good for the legs and other muscles!? Squats for me are simply a waste of time. I don't want lactic acid build up from doing 50 reps til I'm tired!!! What would you suggest? Adding more exercises, sets?
 
Thanks! (Sorry for such a long post)
 
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rayvil01 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rayvil01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2008 at 6:55am
My bench press has broke and atm I can't buy a new one, I want one of those speed radar unity thingys anyway. I can do it on my bed kinda, bit wierd but feels pretty much the same.

Hayes is the resident expert on workout routines vis-a-vis fast twitch muscles.  So, I'm not going to touch that area.  But, with your bench issues, I'd suggest you consider a Swiss Ball.  It's dumbbell work, and it's really effective.  The dynamic balancing makes it quite efficient.  Safer than a bed, at least, and cheap. 
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jonag View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2008 at 8:24am
Eating protein/carb shakes after training gives the best muscle growth and training effect.  If you drop it, muscles will suffer and strength gain will be reduced.  So that is no option.
I have learned that the fewer (3-8) repetitions the less muscle pump and growth.  Hayes had an interesting article about plyometrics and 30% of 1RM weight.  That could be it for you.  Speed, speed and speed and not body build pump.  I would still say doing heavy weights is important to stay away from injuries related to speed training.
 
Eating.  Science tell us that it is the number of calories that counts.  Too few and we get leaner, too many and we store them as fat.  Proteins/fats seem to satisfy better than carbs.  High carbs makes us hungry.  If you combine carbs and fat, you can eat a lot and the food you eat is high in calories. 
The amount of carbs you need for energy for the brain/etc and for blood sugar during excersize is very limited.  For doing daily weight training and limited endurance , some 50-150g a day.  Proteins and fats are essential and used for repairing after training, for immune defence, nerve signaling, brain tissue, energy, hormones, etc, etc.
 
Do not be afraid of fats, they are essential to your body (fish oil, some omega 6).  Else, use them for energy.  But remember to reduce processed fats (a lot of the plant oils that are chemically produced or margarines) as they contain trans fats and rancid fats, and eat all natural fats (virgin olive oil, virgin coconut oil, butter, cream, nuts, seeds, lard, etc).  And be sure to eat as much fish oil as omega 6 !
 
Golf is a lightweight speedy movement.  You need to develop speed, get as many of the fast twitch to mobilize together at a light weight.  Training only heavy will mobilize them for heavy weight.  Training light and speedy mobilizes them at light weight.  I do both, heavy for preventing injury, maximizing power, getting more twitch muscles in action generally, and speedy for getting more action at light weight, for absolute contraction speed and for movements to be as golf specific as possible.
 
Maybe Hayes could make you a program...?
Jon Arne
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spuddy09 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spuddy09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2008 at 9:12am
I began a strength building regime at the end of 2007.
I have always been a little weak in the upper body; this stems from both genetics, and doing a lot of long distance/ middle distance running as a teenager.
I'm in week 7 of a 12 week programme and I've already started to see results.
I train 4 times a week. 2 weights sessions and 2 cardio.
My weights session is a 5x5 based regime ( 5 sets of 5 reps with 90secs rest in between sets and 3 mins in between exercises). A good example of this can be taken from www.bodybuilding.com
My workout takes me about 90 minutes. in every session, I incorporate 20 mins of abdominal work along with pylometrics (using a Swiss ball is good for this as well).
My cardio always has a 20 minute HIIT( high intensity interval training) session which can be done on a treadmill, rowing machine or cross trainer. HIIT has been proven to increase metabolic rate over a greater period of time, and burn fat more efficiently, as compared to jogging for an hour on the treadmill or the equivalent.
With my strength training programme, all of my exercises are 'compound' and do not isolate one single muscle group but maybe 2, 3 or 4. A session tends to concentrate on upper body one day and lower body the next.
The bottom line is........what are your aims and objectives?


Edited by spuddy09 - 05 February 2008 at 9:13am
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hayes959 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hayes959 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2008 at 10:36am
Geez.  After reading that post, I am exhausted and may not workout again for two weeks.
 
theidiot,
 
I am no professional.  That said, you basically have covered in one post the past 30 years of my workout routines.  It's like an itch that you can never fully scratch.  What is best and where can I find it?
  I have painstakingly learned that less is more and have learned how much I did not know.  Research has shown that doing jump squats with 30% of your 1-rep max squat will actually improve your squatting strength.  So why kill my back and quads doing heavy, slow squats?
 
Stop, take a step back, and think about how the body funcitons in the golfswing and consider that a golf club weighs about 12 oz.  How much brute strength does it take to move 12 oz.?  YOu want to develop fast-twitch muscles and speed.  Here is something interesting that I just learned from someone who is familiar with the testing done by the Titleist Performance Institute.  The one physical attribute that a PGA Tour player and the LongDrive guys have that is far better than amateur golfers is hand strength.  How about that?  Two times per week, go hang from a pullup bar until your grip fails.
 
Ever notice how muscled track sprinters are versus endurance runners?  Why?  Sprinters perform explosively, all out for no more than 10 seconds.  The miler's perform at less than maximum effort for 4 minutes.  What do Cheetah's do?  Explode fast, rest, explode fast, rest. 
 
My best workout tool now is a clock.  I time everything for 8 seconds and then rest for one minute. As many reps, as fast as possible in 8 seconds.  I do lots of speed calisthentics; skipping, hopping, bounding, 1-legged bounds, jumping jacks, jump-rope, toe touches, running in place feet on the floor, air-punches, windmilling the arms.  Some days I will do jumpsquats, as many reps as possible in 10 seconds.  Don't laugh, 8 seconds is a long time and you will be sucking lots of wind by the 3rd exercise.  The movement exercises are for 10 yards, hard and fast.  Then rest.  12-15 minutes and then go rest, or swing a golfclub. Start out 3 times per week and select 6-7 exercises per workout.   Like the sprinters I mentioned earlier, after several months of these speed exercises, my body is getting lean and rock hard.  I am getting big arms from the pumping motion of running in place hard.  Didn't necessarily want that result but it shows the results of fast movements. 
Remember that you are building a dynamic, athletic body to swing a golf club efficiently. 
 
Again, I am not a professional.  This is what I am doing and it has been working for me as my CHS is steadily getting faster.  Hope this helps.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theidiot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2008 at 10:40am
Thanks chaps!
 
When I first started my weights I put on a decent amount of muscle very fast, I was very happy. But then I experienced a dip in growth, more fat growth lol!
 
My shakes used to have olive oil, loads of peanut butter, full fat milk and protein mixture. They were monsters. I still have shakes and alot of protein but less fat. The peanut butter I got had no hydrogenated fat in it, I steered well clear of that junk. My shakes now are either water and protein mix or skimmed milk and protein mix (maybe a little peanut butter too.) I eat loads of protein tho, it's all I would eat if I had the chance. I'm a meat eater if you've ever seen one. Love eggs too!
 
My aims are simple:
Get more muscle.
Get more flexible.
Get faster.
 
I didn't mention that at one point I was switching my sets and reps. I'd do heavy weight, low weight, low weight, heavy weight etc. And obviously varying the reps and sets. I didn't like it tho, I felt my strength deteriorate.
 
Spud,
 
How do you do so much ab work?? I do a few variations on sit ups but that's it. I don't know of any other ab workouts, I knew one that involved weights but it did nothing for my abs, infact it just hurt my back...
 
I did HIT stuff when I was cutting, I learnt about it at School. GCSE P.E. was worth it! We called it FARTLEK. I did it on a rowing machine and also sprints. I originally did 5 mins warm up, 2 mins 60%, 1 min all out, 2 mins 60%, 1 min all out, 2mins 60%, 1 min all out, 2 mins 60%, 5 mins warm down. I then switched to 20minutes of pure hell. 5 min warm up, 1 min 60%, 1 min all out, 1 min 60%, 1 min all out..... boy oh boy!
Don't you find that if you're doing 5 sets you're knackered after the first 2? Maybe my weights are too high, I assume you aren't using a monster weight?? How many reps do you think you could do with that particular weight? And what exercises do you do if you're only doing compound??
 
The only thing I can't understand with an upper/lower split is where do squats and deadlifts come into it as they use both upper and lower body muscles!?
 
Ray, I love doing bench press with heavy weights. Can you do this on a swiss ball? I heard they were very good for abs work?
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theidiot View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theidiot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2008 at 10:57am
Originally posted by hayes959 hayes959 wrote:

Geez.  After reading that post, I am exhausted and may not workout again for two weeks.
 
theidiot,
 
I am no professional.  That said, you basically have covered in one post the past 30 years of my workout routines.  It's like an itch that you can never fully scratch.  What is best and where can I find it?
  I have painstakingly learned that less is more and have learned how much I did not know.  Research has shown that doing jump squats with 30% of your 1-rep max squat will actually improve your squatting strength.  So why kill my back and quads doing heavy, slow squats?
 
Stop, take a step back, and think about how the body funcitons in the golfswing and consider that a golf club weighs about 12 oz.  How much brute strength does it take to move 12 oz.?  YOu want to develop fast-twitch muscles and speed.  Here is something interesting that I just learned from someone who is familiar with the testing done by the Titleist Performance Institute.  The one physical attribute that a PGA Tour player and the LongDrive guys have that is far better than amateur golfers is hand strength.  How about that?  Two times per week, go hang from a pullup bar until your grip fails.
 
Ever notice how muscled track sprinters are versus endurance runners?  Why?  Sprinters perform explosively, all out for no more than 10 seconds.  The miler's perform at less than maximum effort for 4 minutes.  What do Cheetah's do?  Explode fast, rest, explode fast, rest. 
 
My best workout tool now is a clock.  I time everything for 8 seconds and then rest for one minute. As many reps, as fast as possible in 8 seconds.  I do lots of speed calisthentics; skipping, hopping, bounding, 1-legged bounds, jumping jacks, jump-rope, toe touches, running in place feet on the floor, air-punches, windmilling the arms.  Some days I will do jumpsquats, as many reps as possible in 10 seconds.  Don't laugh, 8 seconds is a long time and you will be sucking lots of wind by the 3rd exercise.  The movement exercises are for 10 yards, hard and fast.  Then rest.  12-15 minutes and then go rest, or swing a golfclub. Start out 3 times per week and select 6-7 exercises per workout.   Like the sprinters I mentioned earlier, after several months of these speed exercises, my body is getting lean and rock hard.  I am getting big arms from the pumping motion of running in place hard.  Didn't necessarily want that result but it shows the results of fast movements. 
Remember that you are building a dynamic, athletic body to swing a golf club efficiently. 
 
Again, I am not a professional.  This is what I am doing and it has been working for me as my CHS is steadily getting faster.  Hope this helps.
 
 
 
Hayes,
 
First of all, thank you!
I would like to incorporate this into my routine, maybe 1 day of this, then heavy weights etc. Would this work or would there be negative effects? Do you suggest keep on doing the squats etc but do them faster?
I've never heard of a jumping squat, I am guessing that you get into a deep squatting position and then explode upwards? Does this have the same effect on your muscles as slow but heavy squatting or is it better?
Is what you mentioned like an anaerobic or aerobic workout? It seems to have hints of both. I have done 1 min full blast then 1 minute 60% then 1 minute full blast etc. After about 2 full blasts I'm conked and you know you're trying to go full speed but it just won't happen! Have you ever done the "bleep" test? Now that's a killer!
Are these exercises also good for flexibility?
 
Thanks again all!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2008 at 11:06am

theidiot

It seems (from reading good sources) that proteins are a must.  that carbs to replace what you have expended during the workout helps several matters.  They fill up the lower glucogen storage in the muscles/liver and it raises insulin which increases the anabolic effect.  Fat is more or less unknown if it has a role after workout, but I read that milk is a very good post workout drink by itself.
I would think your shake was great, but try to drink just enough and lots of water.  You do not want a full meal.  You want enough for the rebuilding of the muscle tissue, then wait 2 hours and have a normal meal then.  I just take a raw egg, milk and 25-50g sugar...and water...


Edited by jonag - 05 February 2008 at 11:07am
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theidiot View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theidiot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2008 at 11:51am
Originally posted by jonag jonag wrote:

theidiot

It seems (from reading good sources) that proteins are a must.  that carbs to replace what you have expended during the workout helps several matters.  They fill up the lower glucogen storage in the muscles/liver and it raises insulin which increases the anabolic effect.  Fat is more or less unknown if it has a role after workout, but I read that milk is a very good post workout drink by itself.
I would think your shake was great, but try to drink just enough and lots of water.  You do not want a full meal.  You want enough for the rebuilding of the muscle tissue, then wait 2 hours and have a normal meal then.  I just take a raw egg, milk and 25-50g sugar...and water...
 
You take raw sugar??? I thought that would be bad because it'd give you a massive energy spike? Saying that, I read that Honey was a great post workout food and that's sugary!! I generally eat a slice of white bread straight after a work out. Because it's digested so fast it helps the muscles straight away - which is good. By milk do you mean full fat, semi or skimmed? Skimmed to me is just like water, they take most of the goodness and fatness out of it.
Raw eggs? Eeeek! Tried it once and hated it. I love poached, boiled, fried, griddled, scrambled... yummmm
 
I think I took too much protein in one go before, peanut butter has alot of protein as does the protein shake - my protein shake powder alone has 45g protein per 50g. So I got 45g from that and about another 45-80g from my peanut butter addition (depending on how I was feeling.) It couldn't have been good for the heart or my liver! And I read your body can only use so much at any one time - I should have maybe had less peanut butter or only 1/2 a shake. I also used to eat in the wrong places alot of the time and not often enough. Big meals but only a few of em. Yet again I'm sure this is a reason I put on the podge - my body could only use so much protein etc.
 
Does anyone take creatine? I had some Creatine Ethyl Ester caps for free, I noticed no difference so never bought any. Meh!
 
Thanks J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2008 at 12:03pm
taken creatin, but did not notice any difference.
 
Raw eggs are nice :-)
 
Full fat milk !
 
yeah I follow a low carb diet else, but post workout a little carbs are just sucked into the muscles.  The muscles crave for the glucose and the spike is much less and the insulin levels help in the anabolic mechanisms.  No prob and I do not experience any blood sugar problems after...
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